I want to thank all of you who have written here or who have written swan off list offering support and concern and caring. It truly has helped her in the immediate aftermath of this disaster.
I want to thank too those mental health professionals in our midst who have sent us their insights and opinions.
We were talking last night and she is not certain how she will move ahead.
She risked giving me a lot of feedback about openness and honesty she'd like to see in my relationship with her that she thinks will help her, and I am going to work to make those changes. Last night she seemed to be in a place of feeling that if she had that change, resumed exercising, started taking herbal anti-depressants, and just continued living, so that the loss and huge transition the hysterectomy and concomitant menopause has created, falls more distantly into her past, that she might be fine. I'm not sure if I buy that, but am certainly ready to do my part to make changes in our relationship (greater honesty, more directness, particularly with regard to my desire for SM with others, etc.)
Some of you I think may have missed (and please, I'm not being critical...It was wonderful you cared enough to spend energy on our situation and to write us trying to help) that we did check the kink aware professional list. It would be so awesome if we lived where there was a list of KAP's from which to choose, so we could look down the "list" and interview all of them. Our reality is that there is one kink aware counselor within feasible distance of us. I did interview him at the beginning of this year as well as some other counselors/psychologists, etc. I found him excellent in terms of his credentials, his history of affiliations with agencies in our community, and his record with our state in terms of the absence of any complaints, ever, despite a lengthy career. (I happen to have a Masters in Counseling Psychology and direct a nonprofit social service agency here, and so know how to access relevant information). She did see him. I accompanied her to her first visit and was included in the session. The fact is she didn't feel comfortable with their direction and ended the relationship after about 5 (?) sessions. By the way, I still think he is quite good and I would happily refer people to see him whether part of the kink community or not. Sue simply didn't feel that their conversation was headed in a helpful direction, and hated going to therapy.
I didn't do the prescreening this time fearing that perhaps it was my rather directive (imagine that......me......being directive:) and very participatory approach to brokering her/our relationship with that therapist might have been part of the problem.
I'm aware of family (conjoint) therapy as one of you suggested. The issue we have regarding that is that (were we, first of all, to be able to find a competent, knowledgeable, respectful, etc. therapist) health insurance doesn't cover anything other than individual therapy. Thus, there is little market for such approaches, leading practitioners to not develop capacity to deliver that style of therapy. Additionally when it is discussed (I asked), it is generally priced at individual counseling rates. So if we would imagine individual counseling going off at somewhere between $80.00 and $150.00/hour, then the three of us in conjoint therapy would be priced at $240.00 to $450.00/hour. We are talking about taking on an expense that would likely average perhaps $1500.00 a month. We don't have $1500.00/month to pay for this.
One of the challenges we have in discussing this is that I love therapy. I'd love it if we got into conjoint therapy. I enjoy getting down and mucking about in our feelings and motivations and histories and behaviors, etc. within the context of a relationship with a good therapist. Swan hates it and feels stripped and vulnerable and embarrassed and humiliated. T too feels she would rather do anything than have to discuss her feelings. All that aside, though, conjoint therapy is simply not economically possible for us.
So it's, been just one day since swan met this asshole, and she is recovered amazingly well considering how distraught this made her. Having said that she awoke this morning "all wired-up" having spent a good bit of her early morning lying awake replaying the session Monday evening over in her head, and being upset by it.
I've told her that I think returning to seeing the local KAP would make sense with suggestions as to how she might handle it when she doesn't like their direction. I too have left the door open for her to follow the exercise, and relational change approach, if she feels that is what she needs for now.....maybe forever. I am not usually such an indecisive, participatory partner in our 'stuff." I don't feel my compelling her to do psychotherapy or mandating a specific therapist would help her.....not unless her depression were to worsen greatly (although admittedly you are listening to the diagnosis of someone with whom he is deeply in love with, living with, etc., not an impartial professional, so who knows.)
Anyway THANK YOU so much for all the kind words. I know how impotent it often feels, sitting at a keyboard, knowing someone you have come to care for is hurting, but having nothing more tangible to offer than expressions of concern, sympathy, empathy, etc. This time your expressions of caring and support actually helped, and are very deeply appreciated.
As we go forward if you have thoughts, feelings, caring, please let us know.
All the best:)
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
Tom, I know I offered opinions and advice and I hope that you know that I did not mean in the least that you were not doing or had not done everything possible to make this easier on swan. I would like to point out though that I have never seen any professional who was kink friendly. I have seen just regular professionals who I made aware of my lifestyle choices. I think what I was trying to say, and I did not mean to seem critical or imply that y'all were doing it wrong or anything, was that even non advertised kink friendly professionals can work with the kink community. Of course there are people who would rather not and their wishes should be respected, but many will. I hope that swan can find someone who is willing to work with her on the terms of the choices she has made for her life kink friendly or not.
ReplyDeleteI feel especially for swan as some of the things I feel within the relationships in my life must be at least somewhat similar to hers. We have met and talked and know for th most part how the dynamics work for each other so I feel I can say that I have an idea of her feelings without knowledge of her feelings. If what I feel at times is even a fraction of what she is going though then I know how tough it is for her. Thank goodness she has such a wonderful family, y'all are truly made for one another.
Best of luck in finding what works for you all and again I apologize if my comments sounded critical, they were not meant to be. I was just horrified at swan being abused by someone who was supposed to be helping her.
magdala~
I'm very glad that you are all taking good care of each other and doing what you need to be whole and well. Bless you all....I'm sure your little family will do well with whatever you decide is needed to deal with life's challenges.
ReplyDeleteI like the new colors on the blog too by the way. Its pretty....though, for my eyes, if the red were just a few shades lighter, I could read the black text more comfortably. The woes of being in my 40's...LOL!
Magdala, your comments were absolutely not critical of us at all. We very much appreciated your (and others) thoughts and caring.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your friendship,
Tom
Thanks for you
greenwoman, my god your forties! I am afraid the advent of my 60's is only too close.
ReplyDeleteThank you fro writing and for your kind thoughts.
Tom
Thank you, everyone, for all the care and support, and concern, and advice.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where, exactly, to go next with all of this. I am disinclined to tackle another therapist at this point. There are parts to that that I really don't feel sure about writing here. Perhaps in time...
The colors reflect my desire -- yesterday -- to go kill "vanilla" people (in general). That raging, seeing red kind of mood has subsided some, but maybe I'll leave the red here for awhile until it feels more steady in my insides. We'll see... Hopefully, I've got it so that it is a little easier to read.
Just know that I do appreciate each and all of you.
swan
This is so sad, and it makes me so angry to have to see people try and look for help and not receive it. He could have at least had the professional decency to just say something like "I don't treat that" and let you go. I'm sorry you had to listen to someone like that.
ReplyDeleteI'm lucky- I found not only a good therapist who was accepting of my kinks (and she was even willing to learn more about it as we went on) but also a psychiatrist who was accepting of it.
I went though a lot of therapists. It wasn't easy to find one, and I completely understand not wanting to go back. I stopped trying for three years. Right now I'm not in therapy because I needed some time away from the digging.
If you do decide to go back though, have you considered asking the therapist that you went to earlier in the year for recommendations of people to see? I've found that most of them are willing to give rec's out to people that you might get along with. Also, I'm not sure if there is a list for GLBTQ therapists, but if there is one of those in your area it might be worth calling and asking around- and making it very clear at the beginning of the session that you won't be coming back if they disapprove of your life.
Regardless of what you guys decide, I hope you can sort things out. Living life with these clouds around isn't the same at all, and even though it takes some time I think you'll be able to find help. Good Luck!
tulsa
Seeing Red....
ReplyDeleteI am offering an advice free post here. Only to say, I hope your desire to kill vanilla does not spread to terminating tangerines too:)
I miss the peaceful blues in your background...but for you right now I am glad you are angry at that jerk, rather than feeling uh...blue.
Sue, Tom & T,
ReplyDeleteI just want to grab you all and hug you, it's so hard to be where you are. I went through a terrible time, years ago, finding the right therapist when I needed one. at one point I was totally falling apart for nearly six months, when a friend recommended someone who was not able to take my insurance but took me on a sliding scale. And I wasn't trying to deal with issues related to kink-though looking back I don't think that would have thrown him either. I hope the changes you are making work but if they don't, I hope you'll keep looking for the right person.
One thing that helped me a lot, was understanding the physical and chemical things that were happening to me. There is an excellent book, The Female Brain, using the most recent multidisciplinary research, by Louann Brizendine, MD, that goes into the biochemistry of how we go through the hormonal changes that make up our lives. It's easy to read; I've found it extremely helpful. It didn't give solutions; it did help me think about what I can do given the present reality of where my brain is. Just a suggestion.
Your in my thoughts and prayers and will continue to be.
Hiya Tom et al...
ReplyDeleteRe the financial implications of all going into family therapy together...
Money is but ONE resource. It's a subset of a larger set of resources.
In my experience, there are many ways to skin a cat.
My experience with therapists in South Africa is that they're far more committed to the healing of their clients/patients than they are to pursuing the dollar.
I've gone through really shoddy financial crises before, and my therapist chopped my rate down to almost nothing. I've paid her with framed artworks of mine. I've even done a pay-it-forward deal with her.
If you think imaginatively about the resources open to you all, you might find that there's something staring you in the face. And it may not be a therapist.
I'm reading sue's comments here, and noticing that she appears to be asking her family to collude with her in her antipathy to therapy.
I would strongly urge you all NOT to collude. Face this thing headon. She DOES need something. And it's external to the threesome. And it's PROBABLY therapy.
I would be inclined to help her examine the reasons she refused to continue with that first therapist.
My GUESS is that he pushed her discomfort buttons. And my guess is that she believes discomfort to be the enemy.
What are the changes he wanted her to make? Why was she resistant to making those changes? Why did she assume that if she didn't take his 'advice' (or, more likely, his suggestions), the therapy would be worthless or unsustainable?
I'm intuiting that the Heron Clan is colluding with sue in maintaining her levels of comfort. Comfort in this case is not good. Discomfort is the harbinger of change. And change is almost always useful, if not pleasant. But regardless of the short term discomfort, change is almost always long-term beneficial.
Now... back to resource-thinking about solving the family therapy dilemma.
Some thoughts...
(1) ASK. If you don't ask the therapist to consider a reduction, you won't get that reduction. It makes absolutely no difference to a therapist if there are 3 people in her room or one. She's charging for the slot, generally. And most are willing to accommodate. (Besides, it may be that you can limit the family component to maybe six sessions, with one every two months for continuity, the rest of the time being individual work with sue.
(2) Think about alternative 'therapies'. I work with Augusto Boal's Forum Theatre. It's a left-wing tool for overcoming oppression in communities. It's potent. Amazing. Challenging. Huge fun. Wonderfully enlightening and empowering for all involved. My guess is that you'll be able to find a Boal troupe near you to come and do some work with you. (Look up Boal on the web. There are some wonderful tools besides Forum Theatre. There's something called Rainbow of Desire.)
(3) Think about forming a little role-playing troupe yourself, using some or other empowerment tool.
(4) There's a South African dude who runs something called Family Constellation Therapy. I think it's an international tool. See if you can't read up on it. And collect some friends together to do a session or two. You need one person to facilitate (preferably not one of you three, preferably someone external to the daily grind).
(5) Get hold of the book, WORLD CAFE by Juanita Brown. And head for the World Cafe website. Think about running a few world cafe sessions amongst yourselves.
These are just some of my thoughts. There are certainly dozens more.
They all involve work for the family. Something is upset in the family system of the Heron Clan. And it ain't gonna go away with wishful thinking or comfort-zone thinking. (Not that I'm saying you guys ARE doing that. I'm really just saying that it means taking decisive action. Even if that action feels unwelcome to some of the family members. Not mentioning sue by name here.)
I hope this makes some sense.
Blue skies
love
Roy