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We are three adults living in a polyamorous triad family. The content here is intended for an adult audience. If you are not an adult, please leave now.

2/20/2009

We Don't Agree On Everything

I've just figured out that there are people who read here and assume that, because we are involved in this Master/slave dynamic, we always agree with one another -- on everything. I realize that there are some who believe that Master and I were "speaking with one voice" on the subject of polyamory when we wrote the Polyamory Observations #13 and #14 posts. It seems that some people, reading the two posts, believed that I was "on the same wavelength" and had just sort of picked up where He left off... It just isn't so.


There are plenty of places that Master and I would do things differently if we were each operating independently. I'd likely leave the television and the radio off much of the time. He never is awake without one or the other or sometimes both playing wherever He is. I'd always arrive early for whatever function or appointment I was heading for, He honestly believes that only "peons" need to be on time. I'm likely to never understand why it is that He cannot leave the house without something on the order of 20 knives on His person -- and as to the necessity of sunglasses, well let's not get started on that one. If the world ran my way, it is unlikely that there would be used toothpicks, dental floss, empty soda cans, and crumpled tissues lying everywhere waiting for the slave to gather them up and dispose of them... I could go on.


To me, the fact that He and I don't always agree on everything seems crystal clear, but obviously, not everyone gets it. It is, I imagine a misunderstanding about the nature of how He and I do M/s. It is really simple actually -- Master is always right. Even when He's completely wrong. I don't have to agree with Him on things. I sometimes don't. He still gets to do it His way. And there are times when that makes me absolutely nuts. I fuss and carry on and agonize over it all, and it changes nothing at all. Polyamory is particularly prone to that happening. He and I just don't experience it, understand it, or see it the same way.


When it comes to polyamory, He likes it. He is in love with the very idea of polyamory. He gets all wound up and waxes eloquent about it as a sort of philosophical notion, and He really does harbor some sort of "dream" about a giant poly family full of a whole lot of willing butts for Him to spank.


I am much more inclined to call "bullshit" -- especially when someone gives me that syrupy, sappy, "more love makes more love" line. It's possible. It does happen. We're living proof, but I happen to think that our family is pretty amazing, and not at all the norm (assuming that there even is such a thing in the world of polyamory).


So, while Master is going on and on about the wonders of polyamory, and all the joys it brings, I am in my head working my way through all sorts of counterpoints that I know make no difference to anyone but me. Lest anyone ever again doubt that I am utterly pathetic at embracing the sort of free-wheeling poly ethic that is becoming fashionable these days, here is a peek inside what I "really think." Obviously, my views do not represent those of "The Management."


I think that, if we in the poly community were going to be entirely honest, we'd simply note that, generally speaking, "more love makes more sex" for some, and a whole lot less of everything else for others. Not always, of course, but a lot of the time. A very cursory read across a few poly lists will give you a very clear picture of the myriad men and women in so-called poly relationships who are sidelined watching their partners get "more" while they get way less. It is not at all unusual. The truth is that not everyone falls in love in the same way, with the same ease, and not everyone has the same kind of opportunities to create "more" relationships.

Further, there is a very simple, practical reality that when you add more relationships to your life (regardless of the nature of those relationships), you have less time and less energy for any single one of them. It is not possible to divide limited resources among a larger and larger demand, and not have anyone ever experience shortages. Our household accommodates that reality. But it exists. There is the necessity for sharing time. For sharing energy. For working at making sure that, at least some of the time, everyone gets what they need. Even Master probably doesn't always have things exactly the way He might want it. There is continual balancing. If there were "more" members, that reality would become even more pronounced. More give and take required -- more balancing to do -- more frequent and or more severe shortages of time and attention.


One of the comparisons that often gets used in talking about multiple loving relationships is that of a parent loving more than one child. Master likes that one. "We love each of our children, no matter how many there are. We don't insist that we have to choose one, and send the others away..." So goes the argument. I think that particular image has great appeal for my Dear Master who spent His childhood as an "only" child. He never got to experience the shift in affection and attention that the older children live through as younger siblings arrive one after the other. There is less parental energy with each additional child, and while (as it was in my family) elder siblings might fill in the gaps to a degree, it isn't the same thing.


How individuals adapt to poly relatedness depends on a wide variety of factors. Clearly, there is the question of compatibility. T and I are usually pretty good together; we like each other and we generally see things in much the same way. We are relatively mature and stable and we don't poke at each other or rub each other's fur backwards (at least not very often). I would bet the farm and the first born that there are not a dozen women on the planet that I'd feel as comfortable with or mesh with as closely. All the other three billion or so women on the planet might be perfectly lovely, but I am not interested in living with any of them -- or having much at all to do with them if you want to know the truth. It's just the fact. I am a natural born loner and introvert. I really don't enjoy people that much. Having lots of folks around wears me out. It isn't fun; it is an irritant and it exhausts me.

I like relationships that go deep. I like time spent; long, slow conversations that meander and pause and resume again. I like to know more and more and more about a partner as time goes on. I invest everything in relationship. I understand that there is no reasonable ground for expecting someone to be "all" for another person. That is, in poly parlance, placing too heavy a burden on a single love. In far-flung poly webs and pods, it seems very common for people to have a group of loves that are analogous to a varied wardrobe -- this one for one occasion, and that other for something else, while still another is reserved for other moments and moods. Segmented loving. Compartmentalized intimacy. In those circumstances, no one is "all" for anyone, and no one ever gets access to "all" of anyone. Its all very avant garde, but it makes me sad.

That is the way I tend to think about poly. It is a unique and alternative way of living and loving, and it can work well for some people. I just think that the visions that people have of being able to juggle almost unlimited numbers of intimate relationships in a magic wonderland where everything is wonderful and everyone is happy and fulfilled all the time is pretty seriously deluded. I'd buy that it is possible, if everyone buys in, to manage a whole bunch of relatively shallow, casual linkages, but that precludes being fully available for something more significant.

He won't agree, and life will be the way He sees it. That is where the M/s comes in. Whatever I might think or wish for in this realm may be acknowledged, but it won't change the decisions that will be made. Whatever I would wish, the expectation is that I'll welcome, support, embrace, and make space for whoever might be called into our family.

swan

15 comments:

  1. swan..

    Have i told you lately how much i enjoy and value your honesty?? cause i do !!!

    In this world.. blogger and real .. honesty is such a rare commodity.

    Thank you for being you !!!

    morningstar (owned by Warren)

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  2. Anonymous11:03 PM

    Hi Swan:
    I too really appreciate your honesty. I love to come and read here. You write so beautifully and from your heart, and I love that. I learn so much from you. Thank you so much for sharing. A great post.
    Enjoy your weekend
    Take care
    AG

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  3. My mate has a saying (that's made it's way into at least one poem): "More than three women is a scheduling conflict." :) It's very true - love may be infinite, but time is most definitely NOT.

    That said...I'm really glad you didn't go into "real polyamory" (though the "so-called poly" comment came a little close). As formerly one of the "myriad men and women in so-called poly relationships who are sidelined watching their partners get "more" while they get way less"...I found in MY case it was largely a matter of stylistics (though my ex *still* accuses me of being "not really poly" since my poly doesn't look like his). But now that I'm with people who do poly the way I do, I'm much happier (and find I'm able to express my needs and talk about things in healthy ways...something I could NEVER have done in my marriage). He's happy with his polyfidelity, and that's fine. I have my core family and yet I have the freedom to become involved - and I do nothing half-way, so any involvement is deep, even if it's with someone who lives 6 hours away - with people as my heart choses. As do the other members of my family. And we know we're there for each other anyway. Whatever works for you works for you. :)

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  4. Anonymous4:33 AM

    Oh swan, I don't know where to start with my comment here. There's so much I could say to this that I fear it would turn into a posting of its own, so I'll try to stick the the things which pushed good and bad buttons in me most.

    First,good button. 'Master is always right Even when he's completely wrong. I don't always have to agree with him on things'. That had my head nodding so vigorously I thought it might fall off!!

    That's the only way it works in our relationship.....neither of us would want it any other way, however hard that sometimes gets. We both like that it means I get taken out of my comfort zone time and time again...and not in a 'play' sense but in the sense of personal growth. I am someone much more open to possibilities and to change than I was when we first met.

    Ok....now to the one 'bad button' the one which felt like a poke in the chest with a sharp stick. You said 'when someone gives me that syrupy, sappy, "more love makes more love" line'. I know you followed that up by saying it is possible, and in fact has worked in your own situation. Why did I feel 'poked'? Because we are people who genuinely believe in the possibility of 'more love makes more love'.....there would be no point to us in the polyamory (polyfidelity) dream otherwise. So I guess that makes us 'sappy'....and yes, for some strange reason, what you think of me (us)does matter my friend.

    I spent some time in a poly situation, as you know. There was definitely more bad than good in the amalgamation of those relationships, purely because the dom involved didn't take enough charge, didn't manage those relationships properly. In talking to Master about my experience, we've come to understand how, if we ever got the chance, we'd want to approach things very differently.

    I do look to you, and Tom and T as an example of how it works. I do think, despite you being very clear you don't want to, that if Tom ever did take another into your home you'd deal with it, adjust, and be an incredible role model for a slave who does 'do it the way he wants it done'.

    You're right, we don't always have to agree with them for it to work.

    love and hugs xxx

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  5. Anonymous10:40 AM

    another excellent post!

    in my very limited (and non D/s) poly experience, more love meant more lovers, more sex, many many more opportunities for misunderstandings and hurt feelings, more feelings of doing something both "wrong" and "important" at the exclusion of other things seemingly "right" and also "important," and a hell of a lot less time to be really present with anyone well or process internally. in short: the heady thrill was great, the rest was a bittersweet, often very heavy chunk of work. it's not something that came completely naturally to me. but then again, neither does long-term monogamy honestly. maybe i'm a drifting lover, sometimes overlapping?

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  6. Brava Swan!!! I giggled and nodded through this post. My partner is a Pollyanna Poly. He sees the world as a beautiful place full of wonderful people, and poly as a natural extension of said beauty. Poly is a way for us to enrich each other's lives and learn more about ourselves in the process as well.

    I am much more cynical about the whole concept. Remember that Longworth poem?

    There was a little girl,
    Who had a little curl,
    Right in the middle of her forehead.
    When she was good,
    She was very good indeed,
    But when she was bad she was horrid.


    This is poly for me...Good poly makes your heart sing, but poly gone bad, well...horrid is an apt word. I can think of a few others.

    I know people who do poly well, and it is just who they are. Jealousy and possessiveness may occur, but rarely, and they truly take delight in their partner's joy in new relationships.

    I wish I could be more like that, but my emotional make up is different. I give my partner the freedom he is looking for, but it often comes at a cost to me. Sometimes I get through it and things are fine...sometimes I drink teas of bitterness and sadness. I find myself being martyrish, and that is not a trait I find all that attractive.

    I could not be in a poly relationship with just anyone. My partner is sensitive to my personality, and I trust him. He is good at helping me navigate these waters. I find it reassuring though, to hear the words of those of us who are in poly relationships, but do not find it all that easy, or even desirable.

    I really appreciate who you are, and I take comfort in your words. Thanks for putting them out here.

    Hugs,

    Tt

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  7. Have you heard of the phrase "living inside out"? A friend of mine had a version of this written on a piece of paper taped to her door: "Are you living on the outside the way you feel on the inside?" It's likely a commonly known phrase, but for me it's new. And, I feel I understand it better everytime I read your posts. You, strong swan, seem to me to be a solid example of this...

    With much respect,
    Radha

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  8. Anonymous3:21 PM

    While reading this it really echoed a lot of what I've felt over the years. In my relationship I didn't go looking for a poly family and didn't really think it would work out. I was willing to try it because I liked Master (before he was my Master) and I felt worst case scenario it wouldn't work out. It did for a long time, and I was blissfully happy for much of it, and struggled a lot too.

    Nearly six years later, the bottom has finally fallen out. Sort of.

    I've discovered a lot about myself. I discovered that I am capable of loving more than one person. I discovered that monogamy probably isn't for me. I discovered there were many benefits to us all living as a family the way we did. I have never experienced a relationship as unique or intimate as what I shared with my sister when things were good.

    Then again, I also discovered the bad things. I discovered I hated not being able to be "legitimate." I hated the isolation and lonely that sometimes occurred while Master and my sister wife went separate directions with separate dates, or sometimes together. I hated the envious feelings that would inevitably emerge when they were together and I was the babysitter. I didn't mind sharing at all, but I did hate the realities of having less to go around on all sides.

    There was balance. I'd probably do it again if the right personality combination emerged. Though having watched it take it's toll on my sister wife who gave up a lot of what she really wanted out of life for years only to realize after it was too late to go back that she had changed, I would definitely be cautious.

    Master is never going to be monogamous. He will always be with others, casually or otherwise. I don't do casual. I need to share my life with someone, or people. I need sanctuary and intimacy. Poly living has been a blessing and a curse for me. I've tried to be grounded in reality about this the whole time.

    Anyway, I'm rambling a loooooot and not sure I've said anything of value for anyone but me, but hey. Thanks, Swan.

    bridget

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  9. Thanks for this honest and frank discussion. I am always amazed at the depth of your sharing - especially after the recent "stings" you experienced.

    jojo

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  10. Morningstar, AG, and jojo -- I really appreciate the affirmations. It is really feeling to me like everything I write seems to stomp on people's toes lately. It is good to know tht it isn't a problem for everyone.

    Euphrates -- I really do consciously work to avoid use of "real" in the sense that you point to. I don't like the implication that anyone has the answer to doing "real" poly, or "real" BDSM, or "real" whatever. Sorry if what I did write came across that way to you. I am glad that you have found a style of relating that works for you and yours.

    M:e -- I'm sorry I poked your "bad" button. Seems I'm doing that a lot these days.

    wandering traveler -- "maybe i'm a drifting lover, sometimes overlapping?" I don't know. You are what and how you are. Maybe someday, society will allow people to love as they do without bringing down a firestorm of judgement on their heads.

    Tangerine Tease -- I especially appreciate that "Pollyanna Poly bit. It really does go to style and perception. The Pollyanna's don't understand the Eyore's among us, anymore than we understand their giddy optimism.

    Radha -- I've never heard the prase "living inside out". Thank you for giving it to me. I think it is an idea that I'd like to sit with for awhile.

    bridget -- I know you've run into some really challenging times these last months. I wish I had some answers or suggestions for you, but I am surely no expert.

    swan

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  11. There are so many things I want to express about this post it is difficult to decide where to begin.

    I will start off dispensing with some minutia. We have had a tremendous uptick in our readership the last week or week and a half or so. We used to believe that that happened mostly when we wrote rahter explicitly about BDSM or sex or posted a picture of swan's bare ass. It is interesting to note that in the last week and a half we have featured post of relatively serious and substantive content, and we have drawn a relativley heavy readership. It is validating to know that it is not only erotica that causes people to be interested in reading here (not that there's a thing wrong with erotica too:)

    So between these recent polyamory observation pieces you see both sides of this discsussion, mine which is as Tangerine described it (and I love this label and chuckled when I read it) polyanna poly, and swan's embracing this lifestyle with major misgivings and emotional struggles. I think as you read this, if you are one who is wondering if perhaps she has just countermanded everything she has seemed to say in the past, you need to remember that swan is very much a part of our triad, and in love with both t and I as we are with her. Her misgivings are not about our triad, which is of course very much polyamorous: which deviates greatly from our societal norm. She does have a great deal of concern about the potential for further poly relatedness beyond our current family.

    So you can see there are issues in our relationship, just as there are issues in all relationships.

    I am very proud of swan for getting this out here. For a long time she has felt that as we discussed poly and she failed to put this side of her feelings out here, she was being hypocritical or fraudulent. She can now feel a greater sense of fidelity to her discussion of her life.

    There is much I am tempted to say about my understanding of her concerns, and how unrealistic I feel it is for her to be so afraid of the likelihood of my having a new intense love relationship, and how I think I have contributed to her concerns, etc. But I don't know that it accomplishes anything to do so. She and I have had these discussion endlessly, and often come away feeling we don't always hear each other well, even though we could recite each other's scripts of these conversations.

    It is wonderful she has expressed this, and I am very proud of her for doing so. I of course wish she didn't have these struggles, that this was easier for her, etc. The thing is I love her. I love HER as she is. This is as much a part of her as is the part of her that can be blissfully happy in the three of us having a relaxing night together, after a nice dinner, around the fire, watching a movie.

    I asked, no actually ordered, her to start this Blog, so she could feel connected to others, as she is immersed in this lifestyle that so isolates her from being who she is in her day to day life. She has with this post done exactly this, and as I am proud of her, I am grateful, too, for those of you who have embraced her feelings in your comments.

    For those of you who have felt that her expression perhaps deviated from your beleifs or experiences about poly, it should be clear that hers deviate to a degree from mine, and we encompass that variance. If we can accept that, I cettainly hope you can as well.

    swan I am so proud of you once again, I love you, want you, and you contine to be...

    Mine Always and All Ways,

    Tom

    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.

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  12. Anonymous7:52 PM

    Really wonderful and very brave post, Swan. You wrote it when you were feeling a bit fragile, and knowing that you and your Master deviate in thought and philosophy in this area, but you gave it anyway. Thank you. I see your side very well. As both parent and child, I know that time and attention is not infinite no matter how much you you might wish them to be - or how fiercely you love. Your family has proven that poly can work as an intimate, deeply connected family. You have my admiration for the loyalty you give when your ideas about how come up against your Masters. And he has it for hearing you again and again, for the sake of that family.

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  13. Anonymous9:22 PM

    swan,

    I wasn't asking you for answers, just sharing what your post stirred up in me. I'm sorry if it wasn't the appropriate moment!

    love,

    bridget

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  14. Anonymous4:00 AM

    swan....you certainly didn't stomp on my toes lovely one. I don't think it hurts to have our 'bad buttons' pushed every once in a while. If we use it to look at why something pushed those buttons we often get to understand more about ourselves and others.

    For me, while we are what I suppose would fall into the category of the 'polyanna poly' mindset, I think it is knowing that, for all we'd like to experience what you, T and Tom share, we are unlikely to ever be able to do so. We envy what you three have created, with all its inherent challenges.... which I have always completely understood. I'm under no illusion that poly isn't easy. Yet, for us, its like being able to see the brass ring but knowing we'll be unlikely to ever grasp it.

    The 'bad button' is mine to deal with....and I will. Your pushing that button probably helps the process, as much as its uncomfortable, so thank you. If expressing how I felt pushed a bad button for you then I can only apologise, that certainly wasn't my intention in commenting.

    love and hugs xxx

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  15. Anonymous12:50 PM

    swan,

    Greeeeaaaat post. I just sent you an email. Addressed from melissa.

    Didn't want to use your comment space for my message.

    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this post.

    melissa in CO

    ReplyDelete

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