I've just picked up a new book, "Animals Make Us Human," by Temple Grandin. Grandin is an associate professor at Colorado State University and arguably the most accomplished and well-known adult with 'high functioning' autism in the world. She is also a world renowned professional designer of humane livestock facilities. I first learned about Temple Grandin years ago when I was still fumbling around in the dark trying to figure out what it was that made my brilliant daughter so "odd." Hers was the first voice I'd ever heard that sounded like my daughter's. Hearing Grandin's voice put me on the path to beginning to understand some of the reasons for my child's difficult social interactions (but I digress).Grandin discusses animal behavior (and remember we are animals, too) based on the theories of neuroscientist Dr. Jaak Panksepp, who wrote about the “blue-ribbon emotions” that guide human and animal behavior. These emotions, which Panksepp and Grandin alike write in capital letters, are SEEKING, RAGE, FEAR, PANIC, LUST, CARE, and PLAY. One of the most interesting qualities Grandin discusses is SEEKING, which has to do with looking forward to something pleasant or searching out novel experiences. “The pleasure people feel when their SEEKING system is stimulated,” Grandin writes, “is the pleasure of looking forward to something good, not the pleasure of having something good.” SEEKING is always about something you don't have yet.
I read that, and I had a definite "aha" moment. All of that impassioned rhetoric that Master uses to argue that polyamory is "natural..." He's probably right -- it probably really IS natural, emanating from an entirely animalistic portion of our neuroanatomy. Polyamory is likely mostly about SEEKING -- about the pleasure of anticipating something good, about the curiosity about something you don't have yet. So, I went looking to see if anyone had ever connected polyamory and SEEKING, and there it was (there is no such thing as an original thought, don't you know):
Chimpanzees and bonobos (who share around 99% of our DNA) have what’s referred to as a multimale-multifemale mating system. Females have sex with multiple individuals in
their troop and make positive choices about which males they’re most interested in... Males ... compete with each other in what biologists refer to as “sperm competition.” Large amounts of ejaculate will be produced in order to “wash out” a previous males' contribution. Chimpanzee and bonobo males are extraordinarily well endowed in the testicle department as a result. A large testicle-to-body size ratio is therefore a strong predictor of a multimale-multifemale mating system.In contrast to this, gorillas live in a single male-multifemale mating system and the large bodied males have testicles so small that anatomists have reported difficulty in even finding them. This is because there was no selection pressure from the gorilla mating system to produce a large amount of ejaculate...In all ...cases the mating system of the primate species in question can be predicted based on male testicle size.
So this leads to the obvious question: are humans more like chimpanzees and bonobos or more like gibbons and gorillas. Unequivocally, (and as you would expect from the genetic evidence) human testicles are more like chimps and bonobos...humans evolved with a multimale-multifemale mating system.
We've laid eons of social constraint over the top of our animal natures -- trying to wipe out what is written in the dendrites of our brains. How interesting that we've posited a creator that would frown upon us behaving in precisely the way we appear to have been "created." It really isn't about religion, or morality, or politics. It is about what we are. We can live afraid of what that might mean, but our FEAR emanates from the same brain regions as our SEEKING. FEAR and RAGE result from the inhibition and frustration of what would be "normal" animal behavior.
I don't know what it all means. I don't know how it works in my life, much less what it might mean for our culture and our society. I only know it is intriguing.
swan
loved it swan.
ReplyDeletemelissa
Very intriguing........and explains a lot about life over here!
ReplyDeleteI wish all the teachers in my classes had been like you!
love and hugs xxx
gives me lots to think about swan... and trust me i AM gonna do some serious thinking on it.. :)
ReplyDeletemorningstar (owned by Warren)
Tom and swan, I am very appreciative of your efforts to explain your thoughts and feelings on your lifestyle, and how it works for you. I feel I understand better how you make it work.
ReplyDeleteBefore I get into any thoughts on polyamory, which will be brief as my knowledge is too limited to say much, I just want to mention that any behavior being supported because it is ‘natural’ seems rather misguided to me. Swan, I am very aware of Temple Grandin, as I work in the field of Autism. Do we learn about our animal instinct from studying animals? Well of course! Are we more than the instinct driven animals we came from…I sure hope so.
Written for Monkey Matters Magazine and the International Primate Association on aggression in Primates: “An angry monkey has the cunning and dexterity to leap into the air and accurately take a swipe at the human eye, or to bite the human body in the most vulnerable places, the jugular vein, the veins of the wrists, the nerve-filled fingers of the hand.” Obviously, none of us will think that the fact that our aggressive tendencies stem from our animalistic make-up, and is as natural as breathing, is a reason to accept how those tendencies are channeled. Impulses and actions are two different things in the evolved human.
We have roots as human beings. Animal roots, if you believe in Darwin (I do), can tell us where we came from. Where we are is way beyond, clearly. As a student of anthropology and the history of religions I could talk to you about patriarchal and matriarchal societies, about the Indo-Europeans and the various times and cultures that our human historical tapestry is made of. It is all fascinating but really, in the end, up to us in our day and time to make our choices and design our lives.
I am not clear why you need to point out that some animals, many in fact, do not mate for life to justify your choices. What has drawn me to your Heron Clan from the start is that despite the very obvious differences in our lifestyles, I can see (as much as one can from reading a very open and in depth blog) that you ARE an emotionally healthy, well adjusted, and loving family. I could not understand how and why…as yes it goes against everything I was taught or have seen up until now, but the fact remains, that IS what I saw and see. So, Tom…step awaaay from the primates ;) and feel confident that this is simply your choice, and for you, clearly a good one!
As to your question: “when you, Sara, had to end your friendship in graduate school, did you not have feelings about that? Did you not have to communicate your way through those feelings with your husband? Did you not struggle? Did you never question if that was right?”
Yes, I questioned and we talked…a lot…and frankly I still wish it had been different. However, the fact was it was not a friendship my husband could come to terms with, and as sad as that made me, it was not worth the discord in my marriage to pursue any friendship. It just wasn’t. I guess I think of it as a “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” thing. All actions have consequences, and that one would have been hurtful. Yes, I do believe people can love many. I also believe there are consequences to that. One has less time and energy to put into any one. I have 3 children and love them all, but I do not love them the same, and my dynamic with the first changed when I had the second, and the relationships with the two changed between them and with us when we had a third. That does not make it right or wrong, just acknowledges there IS an effect. When I spend time with one good friend, one on one or several together, it is just different in the intimacy and dynamic. I believe the relationship that Grant and I have is enhanced by our continuous decision to prioritize each other and our union above all others. I will not claim it is the only way to conduct a positive and intimate love relationship, but it is the way we choose, and we both feel we have seen great gain from our exclusivity. I also do appreciate that you feel you have experienced great gain from moving beyond the limits of one love.
Sara, thank you for responding to our attempts to respond to your original question (which I suspect have gone well beyond your original question.) I've responded to this once earlier tonight. That response went somewhere into the vagaries of Blogger but does not appear here, so I will try one more time to see if I can sucessfully get a response to publish.
ReplyDeleteThank you for noting that we appear relatively mentally healthy despite our anomalous lifestyle. I think we are. Actually the bariatric treatment center where t's and my impending surgeries are planned to occur has just certified us so only last week:)
I will not step back from the primates argument in that it was swan who offered it, and not I.
While I found the information from Temple Grandin's new book interesting, I was more taken with the references from Richard Dawkins. I am a great fan of Dawkins and had not realized he had written about monogamy versus polyamory in his work. The fact that he had used some of the same logic in his work that I posited in my post, was very validating for me.
I too work in the field that includes autism and have had the privilege of having Temple Grandin in as a speaker twice in my career, affording me the opportunity to have some one on one time with her. She is an intriguing woman. I was particularly interested to see Panksepp cited. My interactions with him extend back through my undergraduate and graduate school days as well is into my professional career. He is a brilliant and erudite man whose accomplishments in psycho pharmacology and psyco neurology highlight a billiant career. His work in Autism is only one facet of his work.
There conitinues to be for many, I suspect most of us, a belief that the need for a monogamous relationship is innate. I thought the value of the animal behavior arguments swan presented from Grandin's recent book, was, in combination with antropolgy's demonstrating that a plurality of human cultures are non-monogamous, as a counter to that assumption. As you offer that our family lifestyle is different from anything you've ever been taught, I thought that train of thought made sense as part of this discussion.
I do happen to believe we are animals....100%. We are most certainly unique animals with way larger brains and different abilities than the rest of the animal kingdom, but I don't accept the idea that we are more than animals. We have abilities that certainly differentiate us from other animals, some to our benefit and others I fear, that may be to our detriment, and to the world we live in.
I had suspected that you had the feelings, conversations, and even some regrets that you describe when you ended your friendship in the perceived interest of your marriage. I explored that as an example of the similarity to polyamory. We go through a very similar range of feelings, conversations, etc. when we confront an addition to our family. The difference is that at the end we gain another, and at the end of your process you lose another. We expand our family and you preserve your solidarity as a couple.
When you describe the feelings and dynamics you go through when new children join your family it is not unlike what we go through. We do not certainly love each person in exactly the same way, and each additional family member's inclusion requires a realignment of everything. We don't restrict that process only to children.
I hope we have been able to be informative about our life, not only for you, but for a number of folks. Thank you for prompting the conversation with your question.
It was never my/our goal to convince you or convert you to somehow think that our lifestyle is somehow superior. I think it is superior............for us, along with anyone else who happens to choose it. If we didn't think we benefitted greatly from it we certainly would not continue it, particularly with all the difficulties entailed in living so differently from the way the rest of society does. I believe very sincerely we all need to choose what works best in our lives and have the absolute right to live out that determination.
Thank you once again for taking the time, and having the interest to explore this with us.
All the best,
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
Tom, once again, I do appreciate the time, effort, and self exposure you have gone through to share so much with me (and others).
ReplyDeleteWhile people and lifestyles are very different, sometimes opinions are different, there are commonalities, and I do believe it is always a good thing to reach an understanding with, and find respect for, people who are different.
I just recently learned about Temple Grandin through a fantastic PBS special about her life. I was extremely moved by her insights. And, thrilled to find out a little more about her here on your blog! I find explanations about lifestyle to be very difficult to articulate and am very impressed by all that is finely articulated by all the members of your clan!!!
ReplyDeleteLove,
radha