I've come to a place where I am am sort of convinced that there is only so far I can go in working my way through my fears and worries and imaginings about what lies ahead without someone who understands it all to talk with. I edit much of I write here so that I don't rock the boat or cause difficulties or consternation. I have no one that I know that lives anywhere within a reasonable distance who lives this lifestyle that I can just talk to about the things that I continually mash up against. It is awfully difficult, for me at least, to do this all by myself.
So, I thought that I'd try and make contact with the local BDSM group -- PEER. We've made moves to connect there in the past, but never really found it a good match. I guess I was feeling desperate, and so I convinced myself that perhaps there might be a submissives sub-group of the organization, and that I could maybe find a connection there, and find the support that I've been looking for.I sent an email, asking for information about how to do that, and here's what I got back:
i am delighted that you are interested in PEER. We do have a submissive's group that meets once a month for dinner. The location varies. You do have to be a PEER member to attend, but since you have been to a munch (which is a requirement before joining), i would be glad to ask if you could fill out your application at the dinner, if that would interest you.
Membership is $40 per year for the first year and $30 per year thereafter. There is also a requirement to attendt 2 newcomers sessions that are roughly 2 hours each and are held on Sunday afternoons before the monthly meeting.
Well, I have been around the lifestyle for "awhile." I am not a "newcomer," except in the sense that I am not part of this group. I don't need to be "educated" about a whole lot of lifestyle basics. I need some other people, who really do this, that I can talk to about my world. I can't do that at work you know!
So, I wrote back, politely I thought, declining to jump through all the prescribed hoops:
Thank you for taking time to respond to me. I do appreciate it. Honestly, I am needing and wanting contact with others who are living as submissives and slaves. I am NOT interested in a whole lot of "secret handshake" nonsense in order to achieve that. So all of this attend two "newcomers" meetings and fill out applications show up to a munch and on and on and on, is just irritating and annoying and convinces me once again that, whatever I feel I need and want, the PEER organization is not a place for me to get that.
I don't know what I was thinking. Maybe just wishing that this group of people had somehow gotten beyond all of that. My bad.
With that, I thanked my respondent, and figured that would be the end of it. Wrong. Next I get this little missive back...
There is no other submissive's group in this area that i know of.
i am sorry you feel as you do about PEER. i think it has changed. The newcomers orientations are to let new members know about the group, as well as to let those that are new to the lifestyle know a little about safety, etc. Since PEER has an educational mission, we get many people who know little about the lifestyle. Particularly for submissives, that can be a dangerous situation.
We only allow members to attend the submissives group for the group's protection. We do not want predators showing up.
The membership application, fee, etc. allow PEER to do what it does, and is really very nominal. After the initial procedures there is little that needs to be done to remain a member.
It really is a good group - the only one i know in the area that is truly dedicated to the lifestyle. i hope you will reconsider.
Well. What a lot of happy horse shit!
Let's just take all of that pablum for the mind down to basics and see if we can talk to each other like adults, shall we?
First of all, let me be clear; I understand that this is a private group. As such, they can put into place whatever requirements for membership that they feel are appropriate, necessary, or just pro forma because they want them. None of it has to be sensible or reasonable. I don't have a problem paying their annual dues either, because after all, these kinds of endeavors take effort, energy, and resources to keep them afloat. Fair enough.
Where I have trouble with this bunch, and this (all too prevalent) approach to "membership" in BDSM lifestyle groups is this: If you want to keep your little club exclusive and closed, so that you do not have to ever associate with anyone that you are not sure will be "controllable" within your domain, so be it -- but call it what it really is.
This in NOT about education. Education is something that you offer, especially to adults, who want it and need it. It is not something that you force down people's throats as a prescriptive. This notion that a local BDSM group might have some new people walk through the door without a full range of information about the lifestyle; and that that circumstance requires that every new face must be treated like a fucking idiot, is just a convenient way to filter and sort.
Further, the very idea that it is especially vital to educate submissives because being a new (uneducated by the group) submissive is a "dangerous situation," is so patronizing that it makes me want to scream. The condition of being self-identified as "submissive" does not render a person incompetent, stupid, incapable of making judgements, or functionally equivalent to a six-year-old child. Being in lust and horny as hell may create that set of mental impairments, but I doubt that it is a situation that occurs only within the lifestyle. I don't frequent singles bars or similar venues, but I'm betting that if I did, I could find some quotient of horny bimbos making stupid choices that might, possibly, put them into danger. As far as I know, there is no required course of education that all horny bimbos must complete before being allowed to get slobbering drunk and choosing to go home with the first hunky dude that smiles seductively at them. So what's our thing with "protecting" submissives?
As long as I've been in the lifestyle, I've never found it difficult in public venues to identify, pretty much on sight, those who are really new, and to distinguish them from the folks that have a little more time under their belts. Let's face it, a newbie LOOKS new. So, it wouldn't be hard, in any lifestyle group that was worth a damn, to pick that person out, and say something reasonable like, "Hello. You're new around here. Is there anything at all that we can do to help you, or any questions that we can answer? If you think of anything you need, this person right here, is ready and willing and able to help you. Just ask." DUH!
Then, of course, there is the whole thing of keeping submissive group gatherings private. Wouldn't want predators to infiltrate the place and snatch up a handful of the poor dears and dash off into the night with them. Are you kidding me? Predators? Don't these things happen in public settings -- restaurants and the like. We're not meeting in some back alley with a picnic lunch are we? Just who, exactly, is it that we are so gosh darned worried about? I don't know very many of my submissive friends who haven't had plenty of experience dealing with the low-lifes of the scene... telling a creep to get lost is just not that difficult. If you don't know how to do that, you probably aren't going to learn how to do it in a two-hour orientation meeting.
I can understand that there might, legitimately, be a concern for privacy and confidentiality. That's why people use "scene names." Explain to people about confidentiality and the how's and why's . Treat adults like adults, regardless of their sexual/erotic orientation.
I can understand that there might be a perceived need to have a submissives' group meeting out of the sight of the "Dominants" of the community, but I'd think we would be able to identify the known Dominants and figure out a way to deal with them -- assuming they did decide to infiltrate a meeting and spend time listening to a bunch of submissives kvetch.
If I were wanting to attend a play party, especially a party that were being held in someone's private home, I'd understand that there might be a period of time during which that might not be an option until people got to know who I was. That is simply the reality that comes from the business of being invited into people's private spaces. That is different than being able to join in and participate, socially and informationally, with a group of people that share a lifestyle orientation.
It is all about power. It is a junior high school model for making sure that it is clear who is "in" and who is "not in." Our social interactions are our best vehicle for expanding our presence and improving our standing in our society. As long as we insist that we cannot even sit down to dinner with one another without some vetting process that rivals getting a National Security Clearance, we are going to continue to live in isolation and suspicion. What a huge and unnecessary pity that is.
swan
I wish I could say I was surprised, but the munch we attended (the one which would "qualify" you to apply for a new person's group) was about a dozen or more people in a restaurant -- only about three of whom were able to carry on a conversation or communicate in more than two or three word utterances or grunts. I have facilitated support groups for people with significant intellectual and developmental disabilites in my professional life, and the level of social interaction at this munch fell way short of the degree of socialization there. That was the second PEER munch we'd attended. The last one, in 2000, was similar. The reality is that there is likely nothing there to connect with that is of benefit for you. I'd feared that might be the case when you embarked on this outreach. I'd hoped for better. We'd hoped for better. It would be good to have some real time friends to relate to. While I've had friends who've come from all levels of education and vocational development, a group of folks who mainly aspire to be a full time WalMart clerk or perhaps a union factory worker, and whose primary identity is their degree of status in a fraternity/sorority of BDSM folks is about as attractive as the opportunity to join the local Souther Baptist Church choir.
ReplyDeleteDear, you maintain a Blog that is thought of as one of the major voices for polyamorous BDSM M/s lifestyle practice internationally. You've had 500,000 hits over the past three and a half years. You have eight years of live in lifestyle practice, the last six with a Master who has twelve years experience, and sister heart with 18 years lifestyle experience. You will not be attending anyone's "beginner classes" as long as you are owned by me, unless you are teaching them.
These people are a bunch of immature cretins, who need this hierarchical social structure because it is the one place they've ever had any sort of social status or sense of self-worth. They would have nothing meaningful to offer of support at any rate.
We will find a way to have support either from others geographically near us or via telecommunications and travel with people who have something to give.
I love you and am sorry that once again the thought that there might be something of value here locally to connect with socially has once again proven worse than useless.....actually offensive.
I will try to support you as I can, as will t, but I know how desperately you need outside connections and support from others who live M/s poly lifestyles, beyond just your family. Besides that we, all of us, would love more friends. I cannot believe that these Neanderthals in PEER can possibly be all there is in so populated an area.
Mine Always and all ways,
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
swan: Normally I find your insights very accurate, but I really think you missed to boat here, a little.
ReplyDeleteI can understand that their initial reply seemed as though it was imposing a lot of unnecessary bureaucracy on you, but was the "secret handshake" dig really needed? The group I'm sure didn't just arbitrarily arrive at its procedures -- presumably there is a history that motivated the current environment.
All that said, you most likely weren't going to find what you were looking for there, anyway. As Tom pointed out above, you're certainly no "beginner."
you said you needed to talk to someone who "understands it all." There is no such person. There are people who care about you and who have no particular skin in the game or rooting interest. That will prove more valuable than going through tiresome beginner's hoops or talking to a mythical "expert."
I wish you, as always, all the best.
--Lenora
I have found my greatest supports have come from like minded people with similar experience (though not always exactly the same) that I've made a connection with. I hope you find that kind of support for you to dear swan.
ReplyDeletelove and hugs xxx
swan........ i can't believe the gobble-dee-gook you got when you tried to join the sub group..
ReplyDeletei started one here in the Great White North some years back..... all you needed to join was a feeling you might be submissive.. we used to joke and ask switches to leave their dom hats at the door..
we had monthly themes held at a local private club - who willingly offered us the use of their facilities on a Saturday afternoon.. each month we would have a different theme.. and it worked really well for about a year.. then it just kinda petered out......
but i understand - god do i understand - the need to touch base with others in the same boat (so to speak) that was why i started the group up here........ (btw .. i was the oldest one attending and always felt like the "mother hen"... sigh)
anyway........... i know i am miles and miles away from you....... but i am thinking .. we have started a sort of pen pal letter writing thing right now... and yes yes i know i owe you an email - today i promise !!! - i hope it can be a stop gap measure until you find someone / something closer........
hugs
morningstar (owned by Warren)
I'm not looking for an "expert." I'm wishing for someone with knowledge and experience who can listen without a great deal of personal investment in the "stuff."
ReplyDeleteI've been around long enough to know that there is no one that lives exactly the same story. Aside from that, there is a commonality of experience that smooths the way when we sit down with one another. If we get to do that... Isolation from the larger community can be very difficult, and I think it is hard to comprehend what that is if you are not in a position to actually experience it.
There is surely, as Lenora points out, plenty of "history" with PEER here. Much of it is "not pleasant." And while I suppose it is possible to see the reference to "secret handshakes" as a dig, it is really simply descriptive of the prevailing situation. They have the local scene completely sewed up. Folks here are either IN PEER, or they are not in the public scene. There is not any other alternative. So it is a matter of playing their way or not playing. I know, from some fairly casual conversations with other Cincinnati area kinky folks, that ours is not the only household that elects to "not play."
Dang! As I was reading this I was almost hoping you would go so you could tell us about it later lol.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely love how it was pointed out to you more than once that there's no other group. None. Almost like telling you that if you aren't ACCEPTED into their little group - you're finished.
Ok there's more I didn't like lol. I'm not simply annoyed at the idea that the little subbies must be protected from the big, bad dominants, I'm kind of insulted and offended on behalf of any submissive individual with half a brain. They're kidding right? "Predators?"
From someone who is not much of a joiner, it sounds like the orientation meeting is more of an interview to make sure you'll behave like a good little submissive and follow their rules. I would really doubt that you would feel comfortable sharing much of anything with them without feeling judged.
Oh! And I'm a long-time lurker but infrequent commenter. I love your writing. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.
Blush
I thought their requirements were completely reasonable as was the polite repsonse to your email that could have been seen as flaming.
ReplyDeleteWere I am member of that group I would appreciate there is a screening type of process- if not for something like that then I think you would be vulnerable to voyeurism and people wanting cheap thrills.
They need to set rules and as a private group the rules are a matter for them. Seems to me you want a friend and not a group.
Why dont you look on collar me or message boards and find a like minded person for friendship rather than bag out a group that I am sure does a very good job.
anonymous, you'll find if you hang around here for long (and please don't feel compelled to do so), we pay no credance to comments from anyone too cowardly to sign their comment. If you had anything to offer of merit you wouldn't be commenting anonymously. Perhaps you should try PEER. You seem like you'd fit right in.
ReplyDeleteTom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
hi swan. i can understand your frustration. given that it is a large, populated area, i agree that there may be others who feel as you do about that particular group. have you considered starting your own group? you never know who might come out of the woodwork if you were somehow able to get the word out online or otherwise.
ReplyDeletemelissa
I used to live in the area (about 6 years ago) and have been to a few PEER munches/events. I'm with melissa, you mentioned that you'd had other conversations with people who felt the same way you did about PEER, maybe you should contact them and see if they'd be interested in a monthly lunch/dinner or something like that and also put the invite out to others. Good luck :)
ReplyDelete