BDSM practitioners, like us, rub vanilla poly types the wrong way on several levels:
- There is an ethic within the poly community that partners are "equal." Most poly folks hold this tenet as nearly sacred. Everybody communicates with everyone else. Everyone is in the know about the actions and relationships of their partners. Everyone has the freedom to form multiple relationships. Everyone is entitled to their feelings and their reactions. Everyone is valued, and it is all good. Of course, most of them never think twice about identifying their various partners as primary, secondary, and tertiary. Their passioate espousal of "equality" doesn't preclude the creation of rigidly hierarchical relationship constructs -- but that is a paradox about which they remain blissfully inconsistent. When confronted with our relationship dynamic, with its deliberately unequal power exchange, most poly people cringe and respond with skepticism, doubt, and sometimes outright pity. The minute it is clear that Master has the ultimate authority, that He "calls the shots," that I am His, owned, property, slave -- the conversation takes a turn for the worse. It isn't equal, so it must be bad. By their lights, He must be egotistical, arrogant, insecure, chauvinistic, etc. Bias is a funny thing.
- There is, too, a distinctly revisionist feminist bent to the poly community. It is rare to find a woman who identifies as poly who does not also see herself as bisexual or bi-curious -- something that T and I confront pretty regularly as heterosexual poly women. The general assumption is that poly "frees" women to be fully sexual on their own terms and liberates them from the mores and norms of a patriarchal and male-dominated society. Given that as the bias, it is easy to understand how the notion of our male Dominant / female submissive dynamic bothers and offends them. All those mostly young, next generation, poly feminist women take one look at me in service to Him, and assume that I am somehow being held captive in a patriarchal, chauvinistic relational model -- a throwback to another era. They dismiss, out of hand, that this is something I choose and to which I consent. They assume that I am deluded, caught by social imprinting, unable to decide wisely or freely for myself. It is that most pernicious form of feminism (and I continue to declare proudly that I am a feminist) that insists that women should be free to choose, but only within the "approved" range of options.
- The other thing about our dynamic that just drives vanilla poly people crazy is that we relate sexually and erotically through sadomasochistic play. He hurts me and takes sexual pleasure from doing so -- and I am sexually gratified by that as well. The typical poly guy, outside of the BDSM world, is sensitive and considerate and touchy-feely. I can't even tell you how many times, some poly guy will tell me, "Oh! I don't like pain, and I don't want to inflict pain on anyone else," or "I'm not interested in dominating my partners -- we're equals." To which, I say, "good for you, but that doesn't work for me." Most often, if the conversation proceeds very far, someone will proclaim, as if they are delivering some great and awesome relational wisdom, that violence and abuse have nothing to do with love. WOW! Really? You think? What sort of ignorance leads someone to equate consensual sadomasochistic eroticism with abuse which is, by definition, nonconsensual? That is not just ignorant, it is offensive. If I have to explain to you that BDSM does not equal abuse, then I am going to assume that you are simply a bigoted idiot.
In the end, I frequently finish conversations with the vanilla polys feeling baffled, bemused, and sometimes battered emotionally. I am consistently surprised at how difficult it is to find some sort of common lexicon that we share. We are poly and BDSM, and for us those two elements of our relationship are inseparably woven together, and they feel pretty seamless. How is it that it is so very difficult for others to comprehend and accept those realities?
swan
Once again we hear from "anonymous" commenters. NEVER have we said it is "our way or the highway". We do understand others, and frequently engage in thoughtful, considerate conversations with people who hold alternate views. Their way is no better than our way. What we do works for us. If something else makes your lives good for you, we are all for it. But it remains that this is our blog, started by swan. It is a place we present our feelings, issues, concerns. We have never shied away from the difficult. And we will continue to present our lives as we see fit. If there is something you wish to present as an alternative and offer it for discussion, please continue the conversation in a respectful manner. We welcome the debate.
ReplyDeleteT
As a vanilla poly, I have bumped into some of these issues with bdsm. I find I have an easier time psychologically, with women being dominant over men. Also, seeing a white male dom with a black female sub, especially if she is being whipped has pushed buttons for me given this country's history. But those are *my issues*. Actually liking/wanting physical pain is hard for me to grok. I have to remind myself..."she likes this, she wants this. It's cool. Blood is cool. Scars are cool. It's okay". I mean, I don't get it and would not choose it, but...who cares if I get it? There are plenty of things I don't get...like people who enjoy eating fish eggs or who want to hurl themselves out of flying airplanes. Not my thing, but if it makes you happy, then I support you.
ReplyDeleteI also don't have an issue with the secondary/tertiary way of describing some poly relationships. My partner and I share a primary relationship. We are not interested in adding in an equal third person. If we both fell in love and a relationship moved that way we would rewire ourselves and our dynamic.
He is dating another woman. They do not live together, pay bills together, or sleep together more than once a week. He does not consult her on major life decisions (though he may solicit her opinion.) This woman does consider my partner her primary, because she is not dating anyone else (though she could). She struggles with not being an equal in his life...but, if not for our poly arrangement she would have no access to him at all. Does it mean she is secondary as a human being? Of course not! She and my partner just do not have the same level of commitment as he and I do. There is a natural limit to where their relationship can go, because neither he nor I want her to move on in.
All three of us acknowledge the inequity. The terminology is just an efficient way of describing reality. I have been a secondary and again...it was an accurate marker of the relationship...not my status as a human being.
From my pov, you and T have made conscious choices to be in the relationship dynamic that you are. And if either of you were miserable and unhappy, you are both strong women...I don't see Tom locking you in the house and forcing you to stay. That makes it equal enough for me...
Would it drive me nuts to always let him make the ultimate choice of the the movie? Yes...but again so what?
People have to reach a point where we respect adults and let them make their own decisions. Although there are aspects of consensual "violence" in your relationship...I do not see any abuse. In fact, the three of you are a relationship success story where so many fail. Anybody who spends 5 minutes with the three of you can see that you and T adore Tom, and he is crazy about each of you. And the friendship and love that you and T have for one another is indisputable.
As always, mileage varies.
Tangerine, it is wonderful to have your input here once again. Thank you for your affirmation for our family's admittedly and intentionally "unique" relationship. We too have always been impressed with how you and yours fulfill your lives with creativity,intention, and love.
ReplyDeletePlease understand that swan's references to the concept of primary, secondary, or tertiary relationships within polyamorous relationships (whether practiced concomitantly with or without BDSM) has nothing to do with condemning that practice. It was to point out the paradox, or more accurately the hypocrisy, of the poly guru (author of a widely read poly handbook) who undertook to lecture her the other night about how unethical and exploitive D/s and M/s poly relationships were because of their hierarchical nature. He then went on to explaing how he was working to develop four levels or relationship within his poly family. It just seemed incongruous to have him condemning us for our D/s and then immediately describing how "noble" his pimary, secondary, tertiary, quartiary(?)levels of relatedness were in his intentional family.
It is always great to hear from you and I hope we will get to be with you and him again sometime soon.
Thanks,
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
Ah...I get it now. Yes, poly people tend to feel the equality comes from each being able to choose other partners...but, that due to time/space/reality...not all things about each relationship can be equal.
ReplyDeleteThings that simulate polygamy, where the guy has all the sexual freedom and the women don't, ruffle feathers. But, there are so many ways to do poly...Many are offended by the hierarchy terminology, and feel *that* simulates polygamy...with 1st, 2nd, etc...and would never use those terms. I have learned to expand my views on poly given the bdsm component. My experience with poly people is that a lot of them *are* into it on some level, though few hard core 24/7 M/s, though I see your experience has been different. Maybe I am just a poly that tends to attract kinky friends though.
>^..^<
I do wish the poly community got the whole WIITWD ethic. I would note that I have noted same sort of issues myopic perspectives in the gay community as applied to bisexuals, and just as often of the BDSM community when applied to the poly community. "Openmindedness" can be an illusion just like any other.
ReplyDeleteFrom the inside it is very easy to understand what works for one's self, and if one seeks out a community of people who think similarly, one can quickly fall prey to assuming that all right thinking people (as normed by your community) think this way, and that everyone else is has diverted from the true path.
I would guess that the same poly folk tend to also look down on people who practice monogamy... even if that is what works for them.
We all need to stop stereotyping, and revel in the joy that someone finds in whatever form of consensual sexuality that works for them... and never assume that they have attained some form of perfection in that arena.
I do fit into that category of people who practice poly from a non-hierarchical model, and I personally tend to avoid inherently hierarchical labels for my partners... and yes it strikes me as incongruous when others do... but I also recognize that this is what works for them, and I need to be tolerant of their perspectives.
Some people just won't get it... best to just pat them on the head and ignore them. People who are intentionally ignorant are to be avoided, and if they out themselves that easily, I personally count it a blessing.
Algor, we can always look to you for a reasoned and articulate comment. I hope your continued preparations for your upcoming G. I. adventure are proceeding apace without difficulty.
ReplyDeleteTangerine, as one of the groups of kinky folk who count themselves fortunate to have you as a friend, we are happy you attract friendship with our ilk.
All the best,
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.
Good point Algor, I have met a few polys who look down on monogamy. The point is not to have everyone be enlightened to your particular point of view and practice it, but to see different relationship choices as valid and be at ease with what other's choose.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want to rescind the use of "simulate" in my above post. It was late at night and that was a poor word choice...I meant that relationships that "look like" polygamy tend to ruffle feathers...Though, I have to admit I am watching SisterWives, and though personally I feel it's unfair construct, that family appears happy and healthy. They are not taking government money to raise their 16 children, and no 13 years old are being forced to marry a 50 year old. Who's to say what's right for them?